CONGESTION CHARGE LETS DEBATE ON THIS - Airliners-India

tayara mechanici · Member

RE: CONGESTION CHARGE LETS DEBATE ON THIS

the_380 · Member

tayara mechanici wrote:

The happenings of the Indian Aviation starting to look like a Bollywood Plot, with each protagonist trying to make a counter move to the other character.........though all quite predictable.

I think everyones running behind the heroine called Intl routes. At least for the present she is the 'Dhannu' that most are aiming for.....

Obviously... Film mein bhi hero and villian both run behind the heroine. There's more money in the intl routes... everyone knows it.

-- Edited by the_380 at 15:25, 2006-12-08

malik · Member

Spent almost 50 minutes in holding patterns before landing at DEL yesterday. In the "non-peak" afternoon, if you please, with both runways operational simultaneously. So I can understand why airlines into DEL would want to increase charges on account of congestion.

But to then place them on the ticket as "taxes"? Implies money goes to the Government, which is not ethically as well as legally correct, in my opinion.

Anycase, total fare in economy remains between 2-3000, if a trip is planned properly, on any and all well-populated sectors. That's my experience out of DEL to BOM / PNQ / BLR / MAA / CCU and HYD lately. Anything lower is alwys welcome, too.

tayara mechanici · Member

malik wrote:

Spent almost 50 minutes in holding patterns before landing at DEL yesterday. In the "non-peak" afternoon, if you please, with both runways operational simultaneously. So I can understand why airlines into DEL would want to increase charges on account of congestion.

But to then place them on the ticket as "taxes"? Implies money goes to the Government, which is not ethically as well as legally correct, in my opinion.

Anycase, total fare in economy remains between 2-3000, if a trip is planned properly, on any and all well-populated sectors. That's my experience out of DEL to BOM / PNQ / BLR / MAA / CCU and HYD lately. Anything lower is alwys welcome, too.

I am not a frequent traveller, the last time i flew in from FRA-LHR on LH, arr at 08:00 at LHR our aircraft was circuiting london for over 30mins. I went into slumber after noticing the same terraces passing by every 2mins. It was the same into ATL from LGW on BA. Our a/c was schd to land at 07:30, it was a clear day, as it normally is in that part of US, and you could clearly see over a dozen aircrafts circuling down into land like a screw thread formation. And not to mention that on ldg the no of pax at the terminal at both these airports were worse than what you see at DADAR station in mumbai at 08:00am.

Don't know if this was one off.

VABBy · Member

the_380 wrote:

Obviously... Film mein bhi hero and villian both run behind the heroine. There's more money in the intl routes... everyone knows it.

But then dont u guys think we are betting too much on international routes. If we allow all operaters to go international with complete deregulation of routes where India has an open sky agreement with the other country it will also become another fish market. And since most of the operaters would be deploying single aisle aircrafts it means all they might be able to service would be gulf, saarc and some south east asian countries.

Like as VM commented in one of the articles that we fly to chennai bt we are nt allowed to continue the same flight to colombo. Wat makes me wonder is howcome suddenly CMB has become so much of a tourist destination that multiple airlines want to moot flights to the city because AFAIK UL offers competetive and cheap airfares and they have been trying to promote CMB as a hub and thats it there is nothing else in Lanka.

Well the bottom line is international route operation might nt wipe out the airlines losses as there would be competetion on those routes too with DN, SG ie the LCC carriers of india too operating this means fall in yields on that particular route as the carriers would have to sell more inventory on discounted fares.

-- Edited by VABBy at 12:29, 2006-12-10

the_380 · Member

VABBy wrote:

But then dont u guys think we are betting too much on international routes. If we allow all operaters to go international with complete deregulation of routes where India has an open sky agreement with the other country it will also become another fish market. And since most of the operaters would be deploying single aisle aircrafts it means all they might be able to service would be gulf, saarc and some south east asian countries.
Like as VM commented in one of the articles that we fly to chennai bt we are nt allowed to continue the same flight to colombo. Wat makes me wonder is howcome suddenly CMB has become so much of a tourist destination that multiple airlines want to moot flights to the city because AFAIK UL offers competetive and cheap airfares and they have been trying to promote CMB as a hub and thats it there is nothing else in Lanka.

Well the bottom line is international route operation might nt wipe out the airlines losses as there would be competetion on those routes too with DN, SG ie the LCC carriers of india too operating this means fall in yields on that particular route as the carriers would have to sell more inventory on discounted fares.

-- Edited by VABBy at 12:29, 2006-12-10

Thats why the govt had introduced the policy of 5yr domestic ops before you can start intl. But now VM wants to change the policy with his influence and power

tayara mechanici · Member

Competition on the Intl routes can't be more fierce than the existing domestic where a avg of 4 a/c are added every month and that equates to nearly 4xa/c = 600seats avg (considering a 2 config cabin A321 or a single config A319), if each a/c does 6xflts daily that adds nearly 600x6=3600 seats daily, this is 3600x7= 25200 seat per week. So every 4 weeks Indian Domestic aviation adds 25000 seats on an avg ( These figures are based on Gopi's stmnt of 5 a/c joining/ mnth)

Now if 25% of these seats are deployed on Intl routes (increasing progressively) spread evenly over ME, SE & S.Asia, you'll notice a reduction of fares on the Intl routes with a reciprocal firming of fares (a simple example is BOM-LHR where 9W has shown increase in loads with consequent fares firming up too, this is due to BMI pulling out as a result of the grd A330) on the domestic front. With India being accepted as a place to be in, its quite obvious there is a huge interest from these neighbouring countries increasing the inbound traffic apart from the outbound due to lowering of fares there.

So the airlines in India get to utilise their fleet better, the overall yield increases, the employment generation (the airlines will need more cargo managers ) increases within India instead of DUBAI, ABUDHABI, DOHA, MUSCAT, COLOMBO, SINGAPORE, THAILAND & MALAYSIA further adding to OUR ECONOMY and NOT some alliance member or a country whose airline is owned by a Gulf Sheikh or FAMILY with a surname ending LEE.

Moral of the story, get the Intl route opened up and let the market forces decide. To quote Arun shourie '' Indian have a tendency to close the door after them so that those behind (Indians) are denied entry''.

-- Edited by tayara mechanici at 02:53, 2006-12-11

stealthpilot · Member

-- Edited by VABBy at 12:29, 2006-12-10

Thats why the govt had introduced the policy of 5yr domestic ops before you can start intl. But now VM wants to change the policy with his influence and power

I believe the government implemented the 5-year domestic ops rule to make sure the airlines were 'safe'. And of course Mallya and others want to change the current policies, even Gopinath and other airline heads go on and on about the same things. Let them or the FIA meet PP every now and then- if they want to lobby for certain things let them.

tayara mechanici wrote:

Moral of the story, get the Intl route opened up and let the market forces decide.

-- Edited by tayara mechanici at 02:53, 2006-12-11

Yup, exactly :)

Getting back to the original topic, I don’t think it's smart to tax smaller planes more than larger capacity aircraft. Will airlines want to fly 320s or 737s between BLR-Hubli anytime soon? No, smaller routes require smaller aircraft. Airlines will deploy capacity where they anticipate demand (more or less), eventually airlines will fly a330's or an equivalent btw BLR-BOM or DEL.

The government’s job is to provide infrastructure, good airports and efficient ATC management. The airlines should be free to chose where and how to fly. In major airports (not BOM, DEL) 30 mins holding isn’t the biggest deal, it’s a pain in the butt yes but not the biggest deal. Indian airports aren’t anywhere close to being as busy as the major airports, so it’s annoying to see how ill-equipped they are. Now you can point fingers at the rapid proliferation of airlines, or you can blame the government for still coming to terms with last week.
That being said, I agree that unless it's a direct government tax saying the airlines shouldn’t label it a tax 'surcharge'. Security and airport surcharges ok, but anything that is not a direct government tax I think should be factored into the ticket price.
-Nikhil