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karatecatman


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A380- towards the first cancellation?
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A powerful union
 
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BT/Friday/Latest/20060616192125/Article/
MAS staff union calls for cancellation of A380 order



June 15 2006

The Malaysia Airline System Employees Union (MASEU) has called on Penerbangan Malaysia Bhd (PMB) to cancel its plans to buy the Airbus 380.

The call came following Airbus Industries' announcement, for the second time, of a delay in the delivery of the A380 to several airlines in the region, including the Singapore Airlines and Australia’s Qantas Airways.

In a statement today, MASEU said although under the sale and purchase agreement Airbus will pay compensation for the late delivery, the matter has to be looked at from a wider perspective.

The union said PMB would only be buying the aircraft and leasing it to MAS.

MAS, meanwhile, would have to bear the cost of maintaining the aircraft, the storage of the spare parts and support the sending of mechanics, engineers and pilots to Tolouse, France for the specialisation training.

The airline would also have to pay different rates of allowances to the mechanics, engineers and pilots of the A380, it said.

Such costs will be considered a one-off expenditure and entered into the management cost.

If this can be avoided, the cost of management can be brought down and hence the deficit of MAS as well.

MASEU said the money saved from foregoing the plan could be used to raise the level of MAS cashflow and be spent on the maintenance of its existing aircraft. - Bernama

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karatecatman


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BBC TV also said those in MAS who are against buying the A380 fear the difficulty in filling the huge capacity in the A380, given that the national carrier is already facing problems filling its largest aircraft currently, the 386-seat capacity B747.


 



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the_380


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well even boeing is in trouble of orders being cancelled of the B787 so they re equal




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D-ABTH


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Hardly.... Boeings cancellation of 787s are merely a swap by customers to other Boeing aircraft types.. cancellation of 2 or 20 are not going to affect Boeing or even pinch them in the overall scheme of things...

Airbus on the other hand have a lot to lose with cancellation of A380s...

-- Edited by DABTH at 19:28, 2006-06-17

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karatecatman


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BBC TV report, June 19, 2006


BBC TV says that the Malaysia Airline System Union is strongly urging Malaysia to cacel its A380 order. The Union has said that it should use the opportunity of the delay to try and return to profitability. Also  Malaysia Airlines should allow other carriers such as Singapore Airlines to use the A380 first and evaluate its effectiveness. 'We urge Malaysia Airlines to be cautious. Let Singapore Airlines use it first and let us see if there are any problems,' a union leader said, according to BBC. 



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vivekman


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I think it is a sound decision. Companies should buy A380s only if there is a realistic demand for a 550 plus seater aircraft. If they cannot achieve a high load factor with the 747s, there is no point in buying A380s. Add to that the costs of training pilots and other staff, modifications to the airport terminals, etc - and it suddenly does not seem worth it!


I personally think the A380 is going to find only a few customers unless air-travel really picks up in a big way!!


 



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the_380


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Its not only that...


The A380 can take even 400 pax and will have things like bars , gyms, lobbies, suites, etc. which is not possible in the B747 not even in the B747-8.


Besides just for an example the B747 cannot fly non-stop BOM to NYC whereas the A380 can..range u know.


Boeing claims its B747-8 will have a longer range than the older 747s. Lets see how much successful it is.


The launched the 777-200LR version with PIA but the airline says the aircraft is not meeting its specifications as per Boeing.


We can only wait and watch.



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karatecatman


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International Lease May Scrap $3 Billion Airbus A380 Order
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Poor Airbus.


Really bad!!


http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=aoWD6Z3zksqk&refer=home


International Lease May Scrap $3 Billion Airbus A380 Order


June 20 (Bloomberg) -- International Lease Finance Corp., the world's biggest aircraft-leasing company, may cancel its $3 billion order for Airbus SAS's A380 after the planemaker delayed delivery of the jets for a second time.


Airbus told International Lease the order for 10 of the 555- seat planes will now be 12 to 14 months later than the original agreement, Los Angeles-based International Lease Chief Executive Officer Steven Udvar-Hazy said in an interview. He said the contract lets his company scrap the deal without penalties after a six-month delay.


``We could cancel and are considering canceling all or some of our A380 order,'' he said in a telephone interview yesterday. ``We are not happy and on safe ground to cancel the order.''


A loss of sales would heighten pressure on Noel Forgeard, the co-CEO of Toulouse, France-based Airbus's parent company, whose job may be at risk as shareholder ire mounts over the delays. Airbus, the world's biggest commercial-airplane maker, had been counting on the A380 to maintain its lead over Boeing Co. and said June 13 that wiring problems are hindering production.


Mary Anne Greczyn, a spokeswoman for Airbus's North American unit in Herndon, Virginia, last night declined to comment on talks between the companies.


``Any conversations between Airbus and its customers are confidential,'' she said in an e-mailed statement. ``That said, we are in the business of listening to our customers and acting on their needs when it makes business sense to the market. The ILFC order remains intact.''


Shares of European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co., Airbus's parent company, fell 26 percent on June 14 and gained 25 cents to 20.15 euros in Paris yesterday. New York-based American International Group Inc., the parent of International Lease, fell 40 cents to $59.47 yesterday in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. Boeing dropped 78 cents to $84.76 yesterday.


Airbus blamed the late deliveries on bottlenecks with so- called wiring harnesses, the big bundles of thousands of wires running around the plane. The wiring controls functions including in-flight entertainment systems, galleys that serve food, lights, air-conditioning, and also basic airplane systems.


 


Airbus also is investing $10 billion to redesign its A350. That plane, a new 300-seat jet, is being redone to compete with Boeing's fuel-efficient 787, three people with direct knowledge of the matter said last month.


Udvar-Hazy told an audience of aircraft traders in Orlando, Florida, in March that Airbus needed to design an all-new fuselage and wing to make the A350 bigger and faster.


EADS, which gave initial approval for the fifth redesign of the A350 in April, may make a decision around the time of the Farnborough air show in England. The show starts July 17.


Airbus, trailing Boeing in the market for midsized planes, only has 100 orders for the A350 compared with 350 for Boeing's model. The planemakers estimate airlines will buy as many as 3,000 of these midsized aircraft over the next 20 years.


``We are putting a lot of pressure on them to fix the 350,'' Udvar-Hazy said. ``If they don't gain credibility by the air show, we've got serious problems about taking the A350. They have a month to fix this.''


 


 


Full article in link



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karatecatman


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RE: A380- towards the first cancellation?
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More bad news!!


www.reuters.com



Emirates may cancel A380 orders


June 20, 2006


Emirates Airlines has suggested it may cancel some of its orders for the Airbus A380 'superjumbo' aircraft.


The £6 billion aircraft is expected to be a major boon to the aviation industry, with a maximum capacity of over 800 seats and possible in-flight amenities to include double beds and a spacious bar.


But last week news emerged that electrical problems were leading to bottlenecks in the delivery of aircraft parts, meaning that delivery times for the aircraft would be set back Now Emirates, the superjumbo's biggest customer, may cancel some of its 45 orders because delays could affect its future expansion.



"For Emirates, the delay would be a serious issue affecting its well-planned growth strategy," an aviation expert told the Khaleej Times. "It is difficult to calculate the extent of damage it has to suffer due to this."


Penalties for late A380 deliveries are likely to be settled with discounts on spare parts and other similar non-cash arrangements.



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VictorTango


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Boy o boy! What a catastrophe for Airbus! They're surely gonna face some turbulence in the months to come.


Personally I think the 747-8 will win the race against the 380 for reasons obvious to everyone. If the 380 fails, it'll certainly be the greatest failure in the history of the aviation industry. But it's still early days. So who knows? Lets play the waiting game.


Olly



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karatecatman


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ILFC has warned of dumping the A350 also.


http://today.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompanyNewsArticle.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-06-20T082945Z_01_L20432392_RTRIDST_0_TRANSPORT-AIRBUS-ILFC.XML&rpc=66


ILFC could dump $5 bln Airbus deals-Bloomberg
Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:29am ET

LONDON, June 20 (Reuters) - The biggest aircraft leasing firm, International Lease Finance Corp. (ILFC), has warned it might cancel deals to buy the Airbus A380 superjumbo and the planned A350 model, contracts worth more than $5 billion at list prices.


"We could cancel and are considering cancelling all or some of our A380 order ... We are not happy and on safe ground to cancel the order," ILFC Chief Executive Steven Udvar-Hazy told financial newswire Bloomberg.


A delay of up to seven months for the A380 announced last week and blamed on wiring complications has angered customers, sparking calls for compensation and warnings that some might rethink their orders.


Udvar-Hazy urged Airbus to settle on a design for the planned A350 model by next month, when the biennial Farnborough air show, one of the industry's largest, opens near London on July 17.


"We are putting a lot of pressure on them to fix the 350 ... If they don't gain credibility by the air show, we've got serious problems about taking the A350. They have a month to fix this," he said.


An Airbus spokeswoman told Reuters she had "no information" about any plans by ILFC to change its orders.


ILFC is the aircraft leasing arm of insurance giant American International Group Inc. It has ordered 10 A380 superjumbos, which carry a list price of $300 million each.


The Airbus website shows ILFC has committed to 16 of the mid-sized A350, a model which the planemaker is working to redesign to compete better with rival Boeing Co.'s (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 787.


The Boeing model is due in 2008 and the Airbus is expected around 2012.


 



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the_380


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RE: A380- towards the first cancellation?
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Slips in schedule leave little margin to achieve target of 2006 delivery to SIA

Airbus has a battle on its hands if it is to complete certification of the A380 in time to deliver the first aircraft to Singapore Airlines (SIA) before the end of the year.


 


http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...r+end+to+fulfill+SIA+delivery.html


 

Excellent detailed chart of "A380 Production Breakdown" showing the status of airframes assembled so far at the end of this article.

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Karan69


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I hope MH defers the order like VS and AF have done in the past and not cancel the order, thus giving Airbus breathing space as well as their aircrafts were expected between 2008-2010 . Now these can be easily given to SQ and EK to stop the whinning.


Cheers,


Karan



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karatecatman


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Malaysia is almost certain to cancel. Airbus is now in the middle of a political row. The French PM is in a mess.

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the_380


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MAS union is very strong. It wants the airline in profits first then they want A380.


And MAS says that it doesn't need A380s B747s will be ok? They say let SQ first get it and they will later think of it.


Then in the first place why did they order A380 and spend money on renovating Kuala Lumpur Airport?



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vivekman


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Like it is in India, there might have been conflicting points of view in MAS regarding the purchase of the A380. Now that the A380 development and production is in trouble, the opposition camp has capitalised on this idea and are forcing the management to cancel the order.



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the_380


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Unions in india are not strong at all (not political)

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the_380


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One side look at this


Forgeard Vows to Stay on As EADS Chief


PARIS (AP) -- A determined Noel Forgeard vowed Wednesday to stay on as co-chief executive of defense group EADS and help civil jet unit Airbus through its current crisis, despite German demands for his resignation and questions about suspect share sales.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060628/france_airbus.html?.v=6



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karatecatman


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Airbus may be succeeding in talking airlines out of cancellation.


Good for Airbus.



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karatecatman


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Airlines shudder at new delay for Airbus superjumbo
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www.uninews.com


Airlines shudder at new delay for Airbus superjumbo


By Sonali Paul MELBOURNE, Oct 4 (UNI)


The world’s airlines were forced to review growth plans on Wednesday after Airbus parent EADS again pushed back first delivery of its troubled A380 superjumbo.
 Franco-German-led company EADS delayed first delivery of the world’s largest jetliner by another year on Tuesday, and said its launch customer, Singapore Airlines, would receive its first plane in October 2007, 10 months overdue.
 Standard & Poor’s said it might cut its rating on EADS on the back of a profit warning and the delay, due mainly to problems installing wiring in the $300 million double-decker planes.
 ‘‘As the delay will disrupt the expansion strategies of a number of major airlines, the group’s competitive position on wide-body aircraft could be adversely affected,’’ the debt rating agency said.
 Australia’s Qantas Airways Ltd. said it would not receive its first A380 until August 2008, two years late. It expects to receive four of the planes by the end of that year and seven by mid-2009.
 In the meantime it said it was reviewing its capacity needs.
 ‘‘How are we going to mount the capacity in the short-term? What does it mean in the long-term? Where do we go from here? It’s all part of the review,’’ Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti told Reuters.
 Qantas’s comments echoed statements from Richard Branson’s Virgin Atlantic and Dubai airline Emirates, the biggest buyer with an order for 43 superjumbos worth $13 billion at list prices.
 Singapore Airlines said it was awaiting further news on the delay to the 19 Airbus 380 planes it ordered but said it would receive six new planes from Airbus’s U.S. rival, Boeing Co., soon.
 Qantas did not rule out cancelling the A380 order.
 ‘‘I’m not going to speculate on that. That’s just between us and Airbus,’’ Borghetti said.
 The Airbus troubles sent shares in Boeing up 2.3 percent to $81.78.
 CANCELLATION THREAT
 Airbus has sold 143 passenger versions of the plane to 14 airlines.
 JP Morgan analyst Matt Crowe said while Qantas might consider scrapping the superjumbo order, it was unlikely to do so.
 ‘‘From what they said today, I think they’re still committed to these planes. They’re very desirable for Qantas’s needs.’’
 Qantas shares rose as much as 2.3 percent to a seven-month high of A$4.05 as oil prices fell. The stock last traded up 0.8 percent at A$3.99, in a wider market down 0.2 percent.
 Qantas’s Borghetti declined to comment on whether the airline would claim further damages from Airbus on top of the A$104 million ($77 million) it already expects to receive.
 Singapore Airlines, the world’s number-two in terms of market value after U.S.-based Southwest Airlines, has not said how much it has sought in damages.
 Airbus said that ‘‘four or five’’ of its contracts with airlines were heading for a loss.
 Qantas said it was satisfied that the delay was due to production problems and not technical problems with the A380.
 Last December Qantas chose Boeing to supply up to 115 Boeing 787 aircraft for its fleet renewal, worth up to A$20 billion.
 Singapore Airlines ordered 20 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners worth $4.52 billion at list prices in June and said it would take rights for another 20 planes.



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