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D-ABTH


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regarding the previous topic on priests :: my clarification
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for those who have misunderstood what i have been trying to say...

this reflects a personal opinion within roman catholics... i being one and hence i speak from someone within the community. i have nothing against keralites or tamils or any fellow indian community per se.. but for those who have an unbiased mindset and an open viewpoint will understand what i mean.

In the current situation as things stand and develop, it has been observed by many within the roman catholic community (since there are many who seem to interlink christians with catholics and other sects within the broad spectrum of christianity, please dont get confused).. that what was once a calling and a genuine vocation, is now more of a profession. it is quite a difficult statement to explain, but i offer one viewpoint and one with which many are known to have noticed. In the past there were many a fantastic and widespread presence of foreign missionaries and priests who came here and founded many a reputed and thorough institute, be it in education or in healthcare more so specific religious institutes. They came here after years of thorough studies, for one to become a Jesuit involves many more years of preparation than regular priests, but of what is an increasing occurence epsecially noticed in South India is where many seem to be drawn to this particular calling as a profession, and this is where i do not personally like the way things are developing. Many of these priests with no formal roman catholic background nor the extent of familiarity with their vocation are often deputed at churches throughout the nation.. the difference my friends is painfully obvious. This topic was often at hand when it concerned the various issues of "conversions" which have rocked India in the past year or more.. with the media and general lay persons often being confused regarding the same.

This issue my friends is very complex to explain purely by means of typing it out here via text. It is more of a vocal discussion / debate that would serve to explain my stance. The fact that there has been a very vast decline in catholic youth taking up celibacy and priesthood as a calling sure has something to do with it too..

also as i have read VOTVs reply, i would like to state, this argument is also not based on the fact that foreign priests are better coz of their nationality, i beg to differ. my comments were based on the fact of their vast studies and discourse on our faith to a greater extent than our community's local initiates, i seek to draw comparison with respect to the quality. that said my friend, i would have you know that many of the most respected teachers and favourite priests whose mass i go out of the way to attend are very much Indian. There is a certain priest who was first posted at my parish and now has been transfered to borivali but conducts mass at St Michaels Mahim, that i personally attend whenever i can. His name is Rev. Fr Jude, a young middle aged individual whose opinion and viewpoint as well as advice i regard with utmost respect... and he my friend... is an Indian... just a normal priest and not even a Jesuit by a fair margin... yet do i grudge him on that? no.... does it mean that he is worse than the foreigners? hell no!... he is as good as the best i have interacted with.

It is purely the scenario that has developed in India and predominantly in the South is what i am referring to. It is also a similar picture in Orrissa and the other backward states.. christianity here my friends is far different from the original, and this i have experience personally during my formative years in various states in this country.. MP, Gujarat etc..

Please note i speak with STRICT Reference to the disputive viewpoint at hand, i speak out of personal experience and as a member of a particular religion and hence my viewpoint reflects that of someone within this community. I do not.. i repeat i do not discriminate against other sects or religions or ethnicity, please understand that.. what i would like people to understand is the point i have tried to explain with explicit focus on the facts at hand. So for those who have misunderstood, or for that matter if my previous post has not been clear enough and has portrayed a wrong picture of my stance, then i stand corrected and apologise for any hurt sentiments.

just to set the record straight. peace.

-- Edited by D-ABTH at 13:19, 2006-12-15

-- Edited by D-ABTH at 13:21, 2006-12-15

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the_380


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IMO why on the earth are we fighting over priests? We're an aviation forum we should rather be dicussing over pilots and enggs.


Besides with due respect i would like to point out violation of rule no. 5 Site Rules


rgds
the_380


PS:Breathe easy everybody lets get back to work.... whats latest with AI's long haul fleet and when is 9W/S2 flying Gulf



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D-ABTH


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this is not an attempt at re-ignition... rather just a clarification just so nobody mistakes my comments as those of mindless rationale, rather just an opinionated view of an adult, i respect others opinions even if i dont agree with them and likewise that is what i seek, to be understood and to make a standpoint... if need be this thread may be locked too i have no objections.

this is all i have to say on the topic... misunderstandings are regretted, if people still read something else into it, i can do no more.

it may be closed now.

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the_380


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D-ABTH wrote:

this is not an attempt at re-ignition... rather just a clarification just so nobody mistakes my comments as those of mindless rationale, rather just an opinionated view of an adult, i respect others opinions even if i dont agree with them and likewise that is what i seek, to be understood and to make a standpoint... if need be this thread may be locked too i have no objections.

this is all i have to say on the topic... misunderstandings are regretted, if people still read something else into it, i can do no more.

it may be closed now.


Ok everybody peace now...


What was i saying last? oh yes EK might operate the A380s into india


PS: Mods please close this thread to prevent further heating


D-ABTH has clarified his point already. No more religion war lets live in peace... we are all humans... thats our religion- humanity


rgds
the_380



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Light travels faster than sound...thats why people appear bright, until you hear them talk!
VOTV


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I still do not understand what you are saying.
If a priest is bad,it is because that particular person is bad and it is not the fault of south Indians or Keralites. That's my whole point.
I am an RC, educated in convent school and Catholic college run by Jesuit fathers (all Keralites). I didn't feel anything as said by you and I have lot of respect for them. I have active paticipation in the Catholic church here in Canada also. I cannot see the superiority of one over the other.

Why are so many priests from Kerala?
Because you should know in India, Kerala has the most number of Christians and also the first people to become Christians in AD52. So, your argument that they don't have a background is not valid.
In north like Goa/Mumbai Christianity came after the portuguese in 16th century. But one thing you could see that many of the Keralite Priest may be eastern Catholics(Syrian) which is a diffcult thing to assimilate for guys like you and me because we follow the Latin rite. I do not attend the Syrian rites myself as I am not one.

Your statement "infact i hate the fact that nowdays in many catholic churches you will find keralite and south indian priests who are really a joke.. its absolutely pathetic.."

Is really bad and as a Keralite, I find it really offensive because most of the priests from Kerala/south don't fall into that category.

I have nothing against the poster but would strongly recommend him to refrain from making generalzed remarks or promoting stereotypes against a particular region.

A verse for you
Matthew 7:1
(NIV)


"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.





-- Edited by VOTV at 22:11, 2006-12-16

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tayara mechanici


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Keep this thread open quite insighful, anyway its in the Non-aviation forum.


Its healthy to express once own view point even if at loggerheads with others and at the end of the as Amartya Sen says '' Argumentative Indians'' is what makes our democracy so robust.


I find this to be a honest debate.........increases the quality discussions taking place here.


 



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JumboJet


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tayara mechanici wrote:


Keep this thread open quite insighful, anyway its in the Non-aviation forum.


Its healthy to express once own view point even if at loggerheads with others and at the end of the as Amartya Sen says '' Argumentative Indians'' is what makes our democracy so robust.


I find this to be a honest debate.........increases the quality discussions taking place here.


 



Well saidBut at what cost, is a question we must all ask ourselves

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tayara mechanici


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JumboJet wrote:


Well saidBut at what cost, is a question we must all ask ourselves



The theory of ''POLITICAL CORRECTNESS'' where the cost of conducting a debate on controversial issues were brushed under the carpet has led to the immergence of FUNDAMENTALIST forces, these forces feed on the misconception of their own superiority in abscence of a strong debate within their society to highlight their hollow claims or inherent weaknesses and hypocracy. Here in U.K. these apparatchiks have rapidly got rid of their PC hats and believe its more sensible to start a debate however controversial rather than being mute witnesses and end up being overrun by these forces. I think a civil discussion is possible in this day and age between adults, its upto an individual not to get disturbed by this discussion rather one can enrich himself, with knowledge of the topic or as in my case improving my comprehension of English language (all i do for a living is stare at nuts and bolts on mauals or in machined form), its thanks to these forums  .


Every such discussion throws up larger issues surrounding them, its interesting considering the times we live in. Below is a link that i thought could be of interest, considering this place and its people had special mention here


http://www.samachar.com/showurl.htm?rurl=http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200612201431.htm?headline=Kerala~worthy~of~emulation~by~all:~Kalam


Kerala worthy of emulation by all: Kalam



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VOTV


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Thanks TM for the wonderful link.


I too had the opportunity to work with the Scientists of ISRO where our President worked for so long. It is really a very nice organization and I had done my thesis in one of the avionic divisions there.


 


One of the things that still bothers me about the original poster of this thread is that he didn't give the real reason for arriving at this conclusion about the Keralite priests. I would be more than willing to agree with him if he can give a genuine reason about the shortcomings of the priests he knows.


As far as I can guess, if one calls them a joke, my wild  guess is, it could be their accent or their poor command of the English language since their English won't be as good as the Goans or mumbai anglos. But still that would be a rather shallow assesment, since these priests are very proficient in giving speeches and sermons in their mother tongue, so the language could be a barrier for them.


This is only my conclusion, I could be wrong, but is based on my years of interaction with guys from the north who like to call the southies as madrasis, malabaris and north Indian guys here like to call southies as srilankans. I don't take these things seriously but only with a humour and ask them back if they are from pakistan or bangladesh.





-- Edited by VOTV at 20:57, 2006-12-20

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tayara mechanici


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VOTV wrote:


Thanks TM for the wonderful link.


 guys from the north who like to call the southies as madrasis, malabaris and north Indian guys here like to call southies as srilankans. I don't take these things seriously but only with a humour and ask them back if they are from pakistan or bangladesh.





It sure is humourous to see the prejudice of certain individuals and communities. I can't get the right words Gandhiji had used to describe the shallow superiority complex of the White south africans, all i remember is it started with the words ''I find it amusing to ..........''.


As a eternal student of Aviation associated industries, i always found it odd that Kerala never promoted mass Tourism like Goa. It was only after living in U.K. and travelling directly to Goa from U.K, did i realise the reason. The clever Malabari never wanted THRASH on his soil only the literate cream tourist. The resorts of Cochin Island and the backwaters are a popular spot for highend conferences and package tours. There was a conference of Aviation Industry experts organised by N.K. Taneja Prof of Aviation Studies Ohio University, at Cochin in 2004, i met a few of the participants later, they were all praise for Kerala. Guess what, another fact i observed whilst in Goa was the promotion of Kerala Ayurvedic massage for the not so affluent european crowd.



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D-ABTH


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since it still bothers you VOTV.. i might rather tell you and everyone here.. judging by your initial reaction to my comment and the following hesitation in believing i made an unbiased observation is precisely why i maintained my silence on this topic.. simply because as i replied to a PM by the_a380, my point cannot be explained clearly enough in words as easy as it might be for me to say it in a one to one discussion personally.. thats the problem..

you dont have to agree with me... i dont have to agree with you. you are free to develop misconceptions about me, it doesnt bother me the least... you can continue to refer to me in these posts in the third person... i dont mind, but all i will tell you is... if you can... accept my viewpoints as honest statements and matter of personal experience, not racist nor discriminatory just as i accept your viewpoints which what i personally feel is that you have found focus on me appearing to be racist or discriminatory against a particular ethnicity rather than understand why i mean the current state of affairs with the Indian churches "recruitment" and young preachers is a "joke" ( it appears that one particular statement seems to have fired you up the most)... if you cant... i cant be arsed more than this.

and for all honesty... i think i have had enough of this topic in itself... many of these members here following this discussion may agree with you... or maybe all will agree with your views... or maybe some with me and some with you... or maybe all with me (which i myself think is impossible).. but maybe someone who is a roman catholic here and has managed to identify with what i have tried to put across may just be able to explain it further.. in either which ways... i dont think i will take part any more in this topic..

cheers.

edited to keep things simple..

-- Edited by D-ABTH at 11:45, 2006-12-21

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VOTV


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As I mentioned before, I don't have anything against you and my initial reactions are based on my previous experiences, not necessarily you. I am curious to know the real problems as seen by you, if you don't mind you could pm me and I can look at it with an open mind.
Have a nice Christmas.

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