The rude Indian passenger - Airliners-India

texdravid · Recruit

The rude Indian passenger

Aseem · Member

the tragedy is that the moment Indians enter India bound flight, they are so excited about the prospect of reaching India that they start behaving as if they've already reached. The situation is much worse if it happens to be an Indian carrier, even more so if it is Govt run.

On my last flight back home on board AC, poor flight attendent had to annnounce in Punjabi to not pull out the stuff from overhead bins till the plane had come to complete stop. On my way back my confirmed window seat was to alloted to someone else, and after complain to manager was I given a similar one. Don't know why/how they can do that esp if the itinerery is confirmed way back.

I am appalled to hear that coach class passengers can dare to steal business class seats, I think such people can't just get over the habit of train travel.

rgds

VT-ASJ

D-ABTH · Member

lol... i know all too well how the scene is... specifically with LH...

especially their futile attempts to hide excess cabin baggage somewhere and come down to the gate with it... and when down at the gate... start yelling and abusing and alleging we are partial to foreigners...

JumboJet · Member

Indians just have community living learnings in the early teens.......So i guess they need to learn more manners and ettiquttes when they are travelling by air.....

malik · Member

Hello texdravid!!

While I submit that your observations are not out of order, since after all they are your observations, I would also like to ask you to provide sufficient empirical and valid evidence that the passengers in question that you observed were, in actual fact, Indians.

Indians as in residents and citizens of India.

I mean, could they not have been NRIs (and we know enough about their behaviour already, the malls in Milpitas are a tribute to this), or Sri Lankans, or people of Indian origin from other countries like Nepal, Malaysia, BanglaDesh, Pakistan, Maldives, Bhutan, Malaysia, Burma/Myanmar, Tibet? Or maybe even Americans, Europeans, Africans, Australians?

Then you say "A young kid getting knocked around like this would never happen in the west." How did you come to this admirable conclusion, texdravid? Would you care to research or learn about paedophilia, which is a western export by air to India? Where is this nirvana in the West that you so admire for its eminent love and care for the safety and security of children?

And as far as people trying to grab what they are not entitled to, for example a Business Class seat when they are entitled to a Coach Class seat, may I place here that I have seen how cabin crew in assorted airlines including Western airlines gladly not just upgrade their friends and family but also do so for a fee paid in cash once aloft?

And as for DABTH and his knowing how it is with LH, then here is one for him - why is LH then so keen to step up flights into India if "Indians" are such terrible people?

JumboJet · Member

malik wrote:

Hello texdravid!!

While I submit that your observations are not out of order, since after all they are your observations, I would also like to ask you to provide sufficient empirical and valid evidence that the passengers in question that you observed were, in actual fact, Indians.

Indians as in residents and citizens of India.

I mean, could they not have been NRIs (and we know enough about their behaviour already, the malls in Milpitas are a tribute to this), or Sri Lankans, or people of Indian origin from other countries like Nepal, Malaysia, BanglaDesh, Pakistan, Maldives, Bhutan, Malaysia, Burma/Myanmar, Tibet? Or maybe even Americans, Europeans, Africans, Australians?

Then you say "A young kid getting knocked around like this would never happen in the west." How did you come to this admirable conclusion, texdravid? Would you care to research or learn about paedophilia, which is a western export by air to India? Where is this nirvana in the West that you so admire for its eminent love and care for the safety and security of children?

And as far as people trying to grab what they are not entitled to, for example a Business Class seat when they are entitled to a Coach Class seat, may I place here that I have seen how cabin crew in assorted airlines including Western airlines gladly not just upgrade their friends and family but also do so for a fee paid in cash once aloft?

And as for DABTH and his knowing how it is with LH, then here is one for him - why is LH then so keen to step up flights into India if "Indians" are such terrible people?

BANG ON TARGET.....on the Indian and live in India.

But i travel domestic more like 4 times a week so i know that Indians need better manners.

karatecatman · Member

Lufthansa crew hate Indian flights.

A particular night flight, from Delhi is the worst. The moment it levels off, people are busy pulling out shawls and sheets and stretching out in the aisle. Any objection by the crew results in a torrent of abuse. You want to move around? Try jumping over a row of a mass of people.

**

SQ's Chennai-Singapore flight is classic. By the time the flight lands in Changi, ground staff are waiting in the aerobridge ready to carry out at least 15 sozzled/retching passengers who have passed out and messed up the aisle.

When IA faced this problem, it realised it couldn;t stop the boozing, but had a pile of newspaers ready. The aisle got messed up, no problem. Crew just dropped newspapers on the ____ and continued to walk all over it.

**

UL and IA's Chennai-Colombo is another prize one. Passengers travel with light suitcases, Sumeet mixies and other household goods in cardboard boxes. This is because the overhead bins are ready to burst.

Recently, when an IA airhostess asked a passenger to remove this assortment stacked near the emergency exit, he immediately raised an alarm and asked her if she was implying that there was going to be an emergency and thet they would all die. The commander had to be summoned and after some tough talking, the passenger meekly followed orders.

**

Air India Express is a flying smoking room. The moment the plane levels off, there is a queue for the toilets. Passengers continue to hang in there and smoke. Crew surrenders meekly.

***

It's sad that its us Indians in every case.

It's not clear in TexDravid's posting, but it seems to be (sorry to use this term) a certain class of passenger. Most of the examples relate to the labour class.

But can second the experiences TexDravid has narrated.

**

Yet the point is that any airline that wants to make profits has to just fly India. BA got back into profit only because of China and India operations.

**

Sir Malik,

Talking about paedophilia, its the new dirty, dark and ugly side to "Welcome to God's Own Country" --- Kerala.

After Goa is becoming alert to the problem, Kerala is the new destination for child hunters. Alone on a house boat in a lonley part of the backwaters, a child has no defence to the abuse. After being showered with gifts and money, it s the end of the story.

But its a wonder why this hasn;t come to light. Perhaps the Govt., desperate to rake in the moolah, doesn;t want its magic formula to be ruined.

-- Edited by karatecatman at 14:16, 2006-08-05

-- Edited by karatecatman at 14:28, 2006-08-05

malik · Member

BANG ON TARGET.....on the Indian and live in India.

But i travel domestic more like 4 times a week so i know that Indians need better manners.

Sir I commute domestic in India, and travel international as well as domestic in other countries. Pretty much everywhere in the world, including in the "developed" countries with the probable exception of Japan and Taiwan, do people need better manners. I let go my Green Card in the '80s and live in India as an Indian citizen with a world option out of choice.

I am sure texdravid has had the pleasure of going on vacation with the courteous and refined Brits to Ibiza, or heading for spring break with refined Americans to Mexico. Maybe he has flown with the gentle Germans out for football matches; then again, I am sure he has gone on migrant flights to Turkey as well as other Central European countries with happy farmers and their families singing gentle lullabies in pairs. And of course, texdravid has great experience of the eminence displayed on Haj flights to Saudi Arabia.

Which is why he finds the docile Indian air passengers the easiest to hit on.

malik · Member

Hi KCM, I am not saying certain flights/routes are "flights from hell", but are these restricted to Indians? Take Monday morning on a LAX-SJC shuttle, for example? Or head out on a charter heading from UK to literally anywhere on holiday?

If LH is cribbing about a night flight DEL-FRA, let them withdraw, or make it a day departure, like 9W/VS/BA are now doing on DEL-LHR. And even with late night international departures out of DEL, including on SU/AI/BA/IC, which I have done in the recent past, I have not seen or heard of people sleeping in the aisles. These are urban myths, and I have not seen a single photograph to back this up till today.

For the rest, the MAA-SIN, MAA-CMB or DXB-??? on AirIndia Express, no ideas, no comments.

karatecatman · Member

Hello Sir Malik,

Guess no airline would risk a photo of passengers stretched out in the aisle --- wouldn't risk its image taking a knocking after spending a few millions advertising "a comfortable econmy zone with 32" seat pitch".

Second, there would be a lot of answering to be done to questions from the authorities.

Examples of the "rude Indian passenger" are guaranteed on these routes listed. And much like what TexDravid has said. No airline, snoothy or otherwise can avoid it. Making the moolah is what matters. To heck with what the cabin crew have to say. In fact many airlines on these routes are retraining crew.

Colombo and Singapore are routes IA had problems with. North Indian crew just couldn;t relate to the passenger on thsi route, who couldn;t understand why announcements had to be in English and Hindi only. Small steps like having a local crew component, like AI Express has done, are helping reduce problems like these.

BA on Chennai-London now does announcements in English, Hindi and Tamil. There is a crew member who speaks/reads/writes Tamil fluently also.

***

Yes, get the point about "is this only an Indian thing"?.

The point that has to be brought in that airlines have to bring in a code that addresses the issues of "acceptable passenger behaviour". "Air rage" is an offshoot of this.

But are airlines ready? When one is so busy addressing issues of profit and another is so busy pontificating about "the joy of flying", how do you go about ensuring a standard level of stress free flying in LCCs and full service airlines?

Also remember the profile of the passenger is changing dramatically.

-- Edited by karatecatman at 14:58, 2006-08-05

AKLDELNonstop · Member

Well Mr. Malik and Texdravid both have valid points. It is indeed true that Mr. Malik's examples in the above most would make rude Indians seem militarily disciplined. But we cannot deny Mr. Malik that Texdravid does have a point because he is not referring to unruly football fans or illiterates but to educated and fairly affluent middle class Indians. Most people in the world falling in this category do not behave in the manner described by Tex, however some of our Indians do. This is especially true in the domestic sectors within India.

Let me at this stage point out that NRIs living outside India for a reasonable period of time do not behave in this manner however those living in India do. The reason for this probably is the fact that for the average Indian, "rush" comes naturally, rush to get on a bus; rush to get on the train; rush to get tickets etc. So why should planes be any different. And the main reason for this is when it comes to services, in India, demand far outstretches supply. Be it anything, including the above situations, we can also take the example of schools, colleges etc. So given that situation it is unfair to blame the average Indian for his/her conduct with regards to rush.

However, while one may argue that it isnt acceptable under any circumstance to push a child, I would agree, but one also has to concede that India is one of the most compassionate countries with regards to children. In the west, there are rules that make people/organisations/companies give consideration to children. In India, by and large there are no rules of that kind, it justcomes from the heart.

Please bear in mind that I am not trying to justify any behaviour but trying to find a reason for it.

Cheers

Shub

malik · Member

What texdravid says about "Indians" flies in the face of the way "Indians" behave themselves on the Delhi Metro and Kolkata Metro. The Delhi Metro, especially, now runs heavily over-capacity, even on non-peak. Do you see any push-and-shove there? Truth be told, even in a city with a reputation like Delhi, the Delhi Metro has not brought in separate women's compartments. Is this a statement about rudeness and inconsiderateness?

Point is simple -

1) if you promise a passenger a high level of service, and your service delivery is lower, then the passenger will react.

2) it is so easy for some poeple to participate in these urban myths, towards hiding their own inadequacies.

3) if the attitude is going to be that, hey, these are sub-standard pax, and we are not in the business of serving them, then move on.

So, I still maintain that his observations are surely correct, but his analysis that this is peculiar to Indians in not. But then this is a normal reaction from many of our own ex-pats.

Yes, if an airline promises you something, and then the experience on board is sub-standard, then what do the cabin crew expect? Especially, since we are talking about LH, with an airline now rapidly dropping in the esteem of regular flyers?

LH and SQ cabin crew are well advised to travel by the Delhi Metro, and their management is also advised to try to understand and learn from Delhi Metro why passengers seem to have problems with LH & SQ in and around India.

+++

On photos, I do not expect airlines to post these photos of Indians allegedly sleeping in the aisles. But by now there should have been a few of them on assorted blogs, forums or simply in the media? I have a few young people working with me, flying all over the world regularly, they have never seen anything like this, either.

+++

Specifically crowding the aisles while landing, I will invite anybody on this board to fly into LCY on a commuter flight, and see how the pax on these routes race to beat each other. Or land at Taipei on a flight from pretty much anywhere. Forget all that, just travel domestic in the US on SouthWest in texdravid's heaven, and see how people race to board and disembark.

karatecatman · Member

But when you are locked up in an aluminium tube for 3, 6, 9 or now 17 hours, the chances of insane unacceptable behaviour increase, especially when you can't turn the plane around, get off where you want, get sandwiched in between an over perfumed countess or a fat slob, have to share elbow room with either of these two, have to share space looking out of the window, get to see the same movie over and over again (not many have AVOD), have to queue to the ___ and do acrobatics for 10 minutes, have a miserable meal, settle back into your electric chair after bruising your knees and almost wrenching off the seat ahead, worry about how to reach home/work, worry about immigration, worry about your luggage ....

The profile of the passenger is changing. Lets accept it.

D-ABTH · Member

Malik... maybe its time you learn to take things in a more "non inflamatory" manner..

you do realise that my views in concurring with Tex does not imply generalisation... it implies an observation of the majority problem faced by us... and for that matter... by most airlines...prolly even AI.. though i cant say for sure since we dont operate from their terminal and i havent seen them check in close up...

This is the last time i will respond to your confrontational stand... from hence forth i will either ignore you completely or be forced to use the same tone and suggestive sharp response that your seemingly argumentative comments put across.

malik · Member

DABTH said:-

lol... i know all too well how the scene is... specifically with LH...especially their futile attempts to hide excess cabin baggage somewhere and come down to the gate with it... and when down at the gate... start yelling and abusing and alleging we are partial to foreigners...

Then DABTH says:-

you do realise that my views in concurring with Tex does not imply generalisation... it implies an observation of the majority problem faced by us... and for that matter... by most airlines...prolly even AI.. though i cant say for sure since we dont operate from their terminal and i havent seen them check in close up...

+++

Ok, it is a "majority problem faced by us".

Who is this "us"? Is it Lufthansa in India, in which case is DABTH reflecting the official view of his airline/employer, or is it the viewpoint of DABTH's friends at the airport or elsewhere?

+++

So questions arise:-

If passengers have "yelled and abused", then did LH/DABTH make any formal complaints? I have seen pax yelling/abusing worldwide, including in India, and they are rapidly handed over to airport security. How many cases have there been with you and your friends, DABTH, please, lately?

If there is a "majority problem", then how did LH/DABTH come to the conclusion that these were "Indians"? Is there any hard data on this aspect, please, since the mythical photographs of people sleeping in aisles are not consigned to the dustbins of urban legends?

Where does Air India come into this discussion, please?

Is it LH/DABTH's contention that the problem of excess hand baggage is an "Indian" specific issue, and if so, would LH/DABTH wish to comment on Germans travelling to Turkey and their hand baggage issues, for example?

+++

I could as easily generalise and say that, hey, Indians employed with foreign airlines tend to suck up to their foreign bosses, but that's not the issue.

+++

And finally, if proving LH/DABTH wrong on facts is confrontational, then so be it.