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karatecatman


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Why does Air India never learn?
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AI makes an attempt to improve its image and tehn something happens that gives it very bad publicity. Or is the press very biased?


NDTV had this very dramtic headline: "Air India passengers stuck"


Pune passengers hit Maharaja air pocket: Stuck in Mumbai for 12 hrs 


http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=189544
 
16-HOUR ORDEAL: Five children among 121 passengers who spent 3 hours inside aircraft after landing; Air India fails to provide road transport
 
Express News Service
 
Pune, June 23: I’LL never fly directly to Pune again. The next time, I’ll catch a flight to Mumbai,” said a passenger on the Dubai-Pune Air India flight AI 718, the first route that made Lohegaon an international airport.


For over 121 passengers on the Dubai-Pune flight, some flying for the first time to the Pune International Airport, Thursday night was the most harrowing experience as they were delayed by over 16 hours. The passengers, including five unaccompanied children, were stranded in Mumbai for over 12 hours after the flight could not land in Pune due to bad weather and poor visibility.


 
 
While the delay due to bad weather is understandable, what shocked most passengers was the Air India personnel’s treatment. After landing in Mumbai at 12.30 am, they had to spend three hours in the aircraft seats while Air India officials figured out the next step.


Passengers were assured they would be sent to Pune by a 3 am flight but Air India called it off at the last moment and told them that another flight had been arranged at 2 pm. This was 16 hours late from the time the flight was supposed to reach Pune. Passengers said they pleaded for road transport to Pune but were shocked to hear that their luggage had not reached India.


The problems actually started even before the flight took off from Dubai. Not only was the flight delayed by one hour, passengers were forced to board a smaller aircraft.


“We had paid to travel by Air India but were sent on a smaller Air India Express plane from Dubai. After assuring us during the flight that our luggage would be on the plane, officials in Mumbai told us that the luggage had not reached as there was not enough space on the aircraft,” said Sushil Byahatti, a Abu Dhabi-based banker. He added that despite several requests, no arrangements were made to provide him any road transportation to Pune. “After waiting for five hours at Mumbai, I caught a cab to Pune,” he said.


Passengers alleged that the airlines ground staff were constantly misleading them. “First, they told us that a flight will be arranged for Pune. Then they told us that a bus had been arranged. Finally, they said that our luggage had yet not arrived,” a passenger said.


Meanwhile, over 40 relatives of the passengers on AI 718 spent over 5 hours on Thursday night at the Pune Airport. “They first told us that the flight would arrive at 3 am but that never happened. We were waiting for five hours and Air India officials did nothing,” said Srikant Kulkarni.


Relatives also said the ground staff in Pune were extremely rude and were constantly misleading them. “Air India made an announcement that all children travelling alone had been taken to a special lounge. However, my relative on the plane said none of the passengers had deplaned. A woman, who had come to receive her young daughter was crying but the ground staff took no notice,” said Kulkarni.


Meanwhile, Air India officials denied any slip-up. “The aircraft could not land at Pune because of bad weather. We made alternative arrangements for the passengers and they were brought to Pune on Friday afternoon. We have not received any complaints,” a senior AI official said.


 



 



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vivekman


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This is ridiculous and so typical of Air India!! Makes me vow not to fly them on an international route ever!


BTW, I had been checking for the Mumbai-Pune-Dubai flight on their site and it has been routinely showing that the plane would be a 737! Maybe these people booked their tickets well in advance and the aircraft change happened recently..



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karatecatman


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NDTV was also going crazy yesterday (June 25, 2006) at 11 pm saying an Air India jet was stuck.


Turned out to be the return leg of the Mumbai-Bangkok-Tokyo flight.


Flight was grounded in Bangkok and passengers were stuck there since Saturday it said.


Any more news on this?


 



-- Edited by karatecatman at 14:56, 2006-06-26

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The Problem lies in Taking a Desicion.


Someone Responsible should take a Stand & decide in such situations rather than Stall for time.


regds


MEL



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Oh God - not again.

While AI does a decent job in the air, they are completely pathetic on the ground - the typical "babu" mentality kicks in, with no one willing to take responsibility and no clear set operating procedures for such an instance.

I hope AI/IC merge soon, and are privatized as the next step. Then the market forces can force AI to improve.

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vivekman


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Thats the magic word - "privatisation" Right now an AI employee couldn't care less about the airline and its passengers. There is no sense of ownership at all. After all, its Government property!!


I too hope that the airline is privatised, but before that a long and bloody battle with the unions and the utterly useless Left parties is on the cards.


Nimish wrote:

 I hope AI/IC merge soon, and are privatized as the next step. Then the market forces can force AI to improve.



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the_380


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vivekman wrote:

Thats the magic word - "privatisation" Right now an AI employee couldn't care less about the airline and its passengers. There is no sense of ownership at all. After all, its Government property!! I too hope that the airline is privatised, but before that a long and bloody battle with the unions and the utterly useless Left parties is on the cards.

How can u forget that IC/AI does more of social service than an airline. They fly flights when there is requirements like Kuwait war or Bhuj quakes or they flew soldiers to srinagar and leh durin 1999 kargil war...


Even our ministers fly for free in these airlines as they r given passages...


U expect a private player like jet or kingfisher to do such stuff...


So privatisation is ruled out.


but yes there is one topic within the airline that is hot now... the engineering unions will be merged with some private engineering venture like SIA Engineering... then there will be a difference but yes their "aunties" will remain the same so will the ground staff and management



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Nimish


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the_380 wrote:


How can u forget that IC/AI does more of social service than an airline. They fly flights when there is requirements like Kuwait war or Bhuj quakes or they flew soldiers to srinagar and leh durin 1999 kargil war...
Even our ministers fly for free in these airlines as they r given passages...



380 - the bill for the so called social service is passed back to the country. However, doing social service once in a while does not mean that AI can forget about the basics of running an airline. Having the ability and systems in place to deal with a situation like the one above - is the key of a good airline. Which AI is clearly not.

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U expect a private player like jet or kingfisher to do such stuff...

jet did so. They evacuated passengers from andaman islands after tsunami


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karatecatman


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the_380 wrote:

but yes there is one topic within the airline that is hot now... the engineering unions will be merged with some private engineering venture like SIA Engineering... then there will be a difference but yes their "aunties" will remain the same so will the ground staff and management


If you aretalking about that famous joint venture with Singapore Airlines Engineering, well, it's off. Singa;ore Airlines issued a statement two weeks ago to say that the proposed venture with IA has been cancelled. 



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karatecatman


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Here it is!!


AI flight stranded in Bangkok returns to Delhi
Monday, June 26, 2006 03:42:07 pmPTI ]


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1681708.cms
 
MUMBAI: An Air-India Tokyo-Bangkok-Delhi flight, which was stranded in Bangkok on Saturday due to technical reasons, returned early Monday to its destination with all the 250 passengers on board.


The aircraft landed at 3:25 am at Delhi airport, Air-India sources said.


The aircraft developed a technical snag at Bangkok and was rectified by the airline engineers before it was flown back early Monday.
 


One long flight it must have been. And stuck since Saturday, a fact which NDTV was making sure it was something everyone should know about.


It's a wonder all the passengers still stayed with AI!!



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karatecatman


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As Mr. Sean Mendis once said in that Great 'RustBucket thread'. "Air India's crisis management is a case study. Things always start going rapidly down the crapper."

-- Edited by karatecatman at 13:58, 2006-06-27

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the_380


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karatecatman wrote:

 If you aretalking about that famous joint venture with Singapore Airlines Engineering, well, it's off. Singa;ore Airlines issued a statement two weeks ago to say that the proposed venture with IA has been cancelled. 

ur wrong that topic is back again and this time with more power after GoAir  signed for that same joint-venture



jet did so. They evacuated passengers from andaman islands after tsunami


 


how can u forget those historical records of 400+ flight during the kuwait evacuation operated by both AI and IC u think jet will fly even 50 such flights if asked to no my friend its just to show-off once if jet or kingfy takes over AI or IC they will bluntly refuse


The govt has this vision and doesn't allow privatisation


But yes the solution is to privatise the engg, operations and crew depts. then things will drastically change


cheers



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karatecatman


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the_380 wrote:

karatecatman wrote:  If you aretalking about that famous joint venture with Singapore Airlines Engineering, well, it's off. Singa;ore Airlines issued a statement two weeks ago to say that the proposed venture with IA has been cancelled.  ur wrong that topic is back again and this time with more power after GoAir  signed for that same joint-venture jet did so.


Still stand by what I say. No venture between SIA and IA. IA unions were really scared.


Also makes no sense anymore. Once the purchase agreement that IA and AI signed with Airbus and Boeing was finalised (for the new 43 and 68 jets respectively), the clause that states a mandatory MRO with both manufacturers takes care of all maintenance/technical/training issues.  



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karatecatman


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Please read this and the clarification! This was in 2005. Then there was more talk and then a cancellation in 2006.


Indian Airlines signs two joint venture agreements


Vinay Kumar

July 1, 2005

http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/01/stories/2005070104001500.htm

Pacts with two Singapore-based companies





  • One venture to provide world class ground handling services in major Indian airports
  • The second will provide state of the art maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) engineering services



    NEW DELHI: The formal signing of the Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) between India and Singapore by the Prime Ministers of the two countries on Wednesday has paved the way to ink two separate joint venture agreements between Indian Airlines and Singapore Airport Terminal Services (SATS) and Singapore Airlines Engineering Company (SIAEC).

    The joint venture will provide world class ground handling services in major Indian airports and the second between IA and SIAEC will provide state of the art maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) engineering services in 10 major airports in India. Indian Airlines will hold a majority stake of 51 per cent in both the joint ventures.

    The Central Vigilance Commission (CVC) and the Solicitor General have given green signal to Indian Airlines to proceed with its proposed JV with SATS for setting up ground handling services in nine select airports in India — Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, Hyderabad, Thiruvananthapuram, Bangalore, Goa and Kozhikode. As for the MRO, they will be set up in these nine centres besides Kochi.

    The Minister of State for Civil Aviation Praful Patel is keen that the two JVs start functioning as soon as possible. It was at the instance of the Ministry that IA sought the advice of CVC and Solicitor General if it could go ahead with its choice of partner — SATS — for setting up the ground handling facility in the nine airports. It is just a matter of time before a formal decision is taken by IA board to get the IA-SATS joint venture off the ground. As for the MRO, the pre-launch discussions as well as work have been completed and this JV may also take-off shortly.

    After opening international routes to private Indian carriers and opening the floodgates for new private carriers such as Kingfisher, Spice Jet and Go Airways, Mr. Patel is keen to bring world class engineering and ground handling facilities in India to service the rapidly rising passengers and growing aircraft fleet of Indian carriers. He said the government was planning to hive off ground handling and engineering wings of the two state-run carriers into joint ventures with foreign firms including airlines. Incidentally, Indian Airlines signed MoUs with SATS and SIAEC in October 2003 just when a joint study group was also set up by India and Singapore for preparing the roadmap for CECA. According to official sources, Indian Airlines may be able to effect cost saving of nearly US $ 220 millions over a 10 year period once the ground handling business gets going.

    The importance of the ground handling venture can be gauged from the fact that at the time of signing the MoU, Indian airlines operated 50,000 flights a year and another 10,000 flights were operated annually through the 10 airports. The proposed JV will offer services to all other airlines and thus be a separate business unit and in the process transform the existing IA into a virtual airline and increase its fortunes.

    SATS already has joint venture and strategic alliances in over 14 international airports in the Asia Pacific region. As for IA, it would require Rs 180 crores to change its 20-year-old ground handling equipment. It will also require new process to effectively function should it desire to come up to the levels of world class airports in terms of providing efficient and seamless ground handling facilities to passengers and airlines. The annual saving for IA through such outsourcing has been estimated at Rs 67 crores. The IA-SIAEC MRO joint venture has the potential to turn India into a maintenance hub to service airlines across Asia as it is cheaper to carry out maintenance in India.

    Besides, the geographical positioning of India also will help in attracting potential customers who are within five to six hours flying time from India. Conservative estimates show that IA will be able to earn US $ 50 millions through its MRO venture.

    This is now expected to rise sharply considering the grand plans for aircraft acquisition announced by not only state owned airlines but also private carriers. As of now there are 186 aircraft (leased and owned) of which IA accounts for 55, Air India 45, Jet Airways 42, Air Deccan 19, Air Sahara 20, Kingfisher two and Spice Jet three. By 2008-2009, the fleet strength of these airlines is expected to rise to nearly 300 aircraft. The IA- SIAEC MRO joint venture is targeting to provide A, B, C and D checks to both Airbus and Boeing aircraft. Kingfisher has already entrusted its ground handling job to IA at an annual cost of Rs. 120 crores.


    Correction on July 22, 2005


     


     


    THE CORRECTION


    http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/22/stories/2005072206741400.htm


    Correction




    NEW DELHI: The report on the Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement between Indian and Singapore published on July 1 had gone with the headline "IA signs two joint venture agreements."

    Indian Airlines has clarified that it has not signed any such agreement. The error is regretted.



    -- Edited by karatecatman at 14:17, 2006-06-27


    • -- Edited by karatecatman at 14:28, 2006-06-27

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    karatecatman


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    May 03, 2006       


    SIA Engg Calls Off JV Talks With Indian


    The Economic Times, Cuckoo Paul, Mumbai


    The Singapore-based aircraft maintenance company SIA Engineering Company has terminated its talks for a joint venture with state carrier Indian. The two companies had signed a detailed MoU in ‘03 to set up a new company to cater to the maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) business in India, but the plans have come to a naught. “SIA Engineering has concluded its discussion with Indian and is now looking at other partners for the venture,” says Daniel Wong, the company’s business development manager.


    The rash of airline startups in India is currently being followed by a rush for putting up aviation infrastructure such as MROs. SIA Engineering currently provides maintenance solutions to more than 80 international airlines from the US, Europe, West Asia and the Asia-Pacific region. It is talking to various possible investors, including the Wadia group airline Go Air, Mr Wong said. India has a huge potential for the maintenance of narrow body aircraft (with single aisles) like the Boeing 737s and A 320 family, which are being operated by several airlines.


    “Everyone is talking about putting up facilities, but the first one off the block will have an advantage,” he says. India has witnessed a flurry of new aircraft orders in the past two years. Aircraft maker Boeing had close to 100 orders from India in ‘05, which constitute about 10% of its total orders worldwide. The US Company is investing $100m in an MRO with Air-India at Nagpur. Rival manufacturer Airbus is putting up another venture with Indian for Airbus aircraft.


    This is what scared off SIA.
     


    But you are right about the GOAir venture.


    May 01, 2006        


    GoAir and SIA MRO


    The Asian Age, Agencies, Mumbai


    GoAir expects to finalise its proposed partnership with Singapore Airlines to set up a chain of MRO facilities in India in the next two months.
     



    -- Edited by karatecatman at 14:33, 2006-06-27

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    karatecatman


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    Interesting thing is that GoAir has pasted the news of SIA Engg Co. calling offf its joint venture with IA on its website!!!!


    http://www.goair.in/include/printnews-may-06.htm


    And then gives news of its MRO with SIA!!!!!   



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    karatecatman


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    And read this also!!


    http://www.goair.in/include/news.htm



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    karatecatman


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    Over 100 Kerala-bound passengers stranded
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    Over 100 Kerala-bound passengers stranded Published: Monday, 26 June, 2006, 09:15 AM Doha Timehttp://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=94135&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

    Staff Reporter


    MORE than 100 Kerala-bound passengers of Air-India were stranded yesterday as the airline could not operate its AI 956 Doha-Calicut-Cochin flight.


    The airline reportedly had asked passengers who were supposed to travel by the 10pm flight to reach the airport latest by 5pm, to catch another Air-India flight for Bombay at 6.30pm. One passenger said he received the call only around 3.40pm. Since most of the passengers booked on the Kerala flight were women and children, only about 50 took the Mumbai flight, it is understood.


    Even though airline officials had reportedly promised connecting flights from Mumbai to Calicut and Cochin on either Jet Airways or Indian, passengers were not ready to take them at their word, perhaps going by previous unpleasant experiences in Mumbai.


    A travel agent said the transit time for Jet Airways would be about 10 hours and there was no guarantee that passengers would get an Indian connection to Kerala either. "It’s because of this reason that many of them refused to travel by the Mumbai flight," he said.


    Another travel agent said most passengers had paid as much as QR2,900 for the tickets and "it was highly unbecoming of the airline to handle them in such a shabby manner".


    An Air-India official said later yesterday the Calicut/Cochin flight would leave at 9am today. This information came too late for some passengers who took the Mumbai flight. They would have waited for today’s flight had they known about it earlier, a travel agent said.


    _______________________________________________



    -- Edited by karatecatman at 16:10, 2006-06-28

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    RE: Why does Air India never learn?
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    Two days later! 


    Air India passengers stranded in Bahrain


    Published: Wednesday, 28 June, 2006, 11:48 AM Doha Time


     


    http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=94525&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16


    Staff Reporter


    PASSENGERS, who travelled by Air India (AI) flight 952 from Doha to Kochi/Thiruvananthapuram, in the wee hours of yesterday, had a harrowing time, some passengers told Gulf Times over the phone.


    The flight, which left Doha around 2.30am yesterday with more than 200 passengers, was reportedly stranded at Bahrain airport for over five hours, much to the chagrin of passengers, who were expecting a stopover of not more than an hour.


    "The entire crew virtually left us to fend for ourselves at the airport and we had no clue as to what was happening. They had apparently gone for a break at their hotel," a passenger said.


    Finally, the plane took off around 8am and reached Kochi only around 3pm (IST).


    The aircraft had earlier arrived in Doha almost eight hours behind the schedule on Monday. Some of the passengers complained that they had to wait for more than six hours at the Kochi airport before boarding.


    On the previous evening, Air India came under severe attack in Doha from Kerala-bound passengers, many of whom had to board another AI flight to Mumbai to travel home.


    This was because AI 956, operating between Doha-Kochi/Calicut failed to arrive. Later, the plane that arrived some 12 hours behind schedule, left around 10.15am on Monday.




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