IC to offer luxury? - Airliners-India

karatecatman · Member

RE: IC to offer luxury?

karatecatman · Member

Complete details:

www.uninews.com

Indian to lease six regional jets, five A-320s
New Delhi, Oct 23 (UNI) Adopting an aggressive posture to enhance its market share, state-owned carrier Indian today decided to lease six 70-seater regional jets (RJs) for its subsidiary Alliance Air and five A-320s within this fiscal to expand capacity on its domestic and international network.
With the induction of these single-aisle RJs, the Alliance Air would service new routes, especially those which cannot be profitably operated upon by the over 100-seater A-320 family of aircraft in a ‘‘cost-competitive manner’’, Indian CMD Vishwapati Trivedi said here.
The Board of the Indian, at its meeting here today, gave in-principle approval to these proposals. The Requests for Proposal (RFP) documents would be issued ‘‘as soon as possible’’ so that these aircraft are inducted by March 2007, he said.
The regional jets (RJs) are to be acquired from either the Embraer or Bombardier companies or any other leasing firm, he said. The RJs are a new type of aircraft to be inducted into the Airbus-dominated fleet of the public sector airline.
The Indian also plans to launch operations to new global routes like UK (Birmingham), China, South Africa and Australia and has already tied up with a leasing firm to induct two wide-bodied A-330s by early next year, Trivedi said. ‘‘Our teams have already surveyed these destinations and a lot of potential exists’’.
Asked whether the new routes for the RJs to fly have been identified, the Indian CMD said the airline has conducted an analysis of 16 routes, which had capacity that was more than the 40-seater ATRs but less than 110-120 seater A-320 family of aircraft.
He gave examples of Delhi-Amritsar, Delhi-Chandigarh or Kolkata-Pune, which could be served by the 70-seater RJs. However, the routes on which the RJs are to be finally deployed would be finalised later.
Trivedi said these aircraft would not only improve the airline’s load factor, but also reduce costs in terms of lower navigation, landing and parking charges as these were smaller planes. In case the six RJs were inducted within this fiscal, the withholding tax on leased aircraft would also not be applicable. The exemption on this tax is to end in March 2007.
To questions on hiring pilots for the RJs, he said ‘‘we would initially require pilots for these aircraft, particularly commanders’’.
The five leased A-320s would be powered with the latest CFM-2500 A1 engines, which can only be fitted in the new aircraft. ‘‘We will deploy the A-320s on both international and domestic network’’, he said, hinting that additional capacity would be mounted on the Gulf routes.
While the RJs would be taken on lease for five years, extendable to seven, the A-320s would be inducted for three years, extendable for another two, he said.
The Indian CMD said the six ATRs, which were also being leased, would be used for routes other than the Northeast network.
With the induction of five leased A-320s and six RJs, the Indian’s total fleet size would increase from 48 at present to 64 by 2007-end. Of these aircraft, 37 would be owned and 27 leased.
To questions on conversion of the aged Boeing-737 fleet of the Alliance Air into freighters, Trivedi said the plan was to phase out five or six of the 11 Boeings for conversion within this financial year.
‘‘We will prepare a report for the Board shortly on what to do with the remaining B-737s,’’ he said.
The Indian CMD expressed hope that the public sector carrier’s cargo service would be launched in the next six months.
Trivedi said the Alliance Air would adopt a ‘‘cost competitive’’ model to take on the challenge of the low-cost, no-frill carriers.
While a majority of Alliance Air employees are on contracts, which keep the overall fare burden low, the subsidiary would strive to cut costs by having a largely web-based distribution network, apart from other measures like serving cold snacks on the medium-haul flights.

As usual, independent programmes of AI and IA are continuing. Merger seems to be a mystery.

What happens to the 12 grounded V2500 A320s? Left to rot? Three engines sent for overhaul to IAE have more problems now. CNN-IBN did a programme on how IA Engg has expressed dissatisfaction and how the new problems are a setback to the recovery programme -- of getting the 12 A320s back into service.

the_380 · Member

Douse PP's fury???

Frankly wudnt mind calling him a bas****

He's responsible for the losses of AI and IC. Why the hell would the govt have an interference in the working and management of the airlines. Have a look at Qantas. Even they are a govt airline but the aussie govt doesnt poke its a** in their working. Thats why they make profit and AI/IC run in losses. Thats the difference. Ask him to pamper 9W and IT and then his fury will douse on us own.

As far as the 12 grounded A320s are concerned 2 of them are expected to fly again in this Nov. thats what the "Civil-Aviation Minister" said.

vivekman · Member

the_380, that's a pretty strong worded and uncalled for statement!

Do you have statistics to prove that AI and IC have run into losses ever since Praful Patel took over? For all I know, these airlines have been in a mess for ages now. He's not the only one to blame!!

I agree with you on the point that there is government interference in these airlines but if Praful Patel has his way, he would merge and privatize both these airlines. However, due to insanse meddling by the useless Left parties that form a part of the coalition government, his hands are tied! Would one want to risk a Left party pullout and mid-term polls? Think about it!!

Understand one thing! Praful Patel is NOT the government. He is just the minister for civil aviation. How can he help if his fellow members of parliament or those in "High Command" dole out free tickets or upgrades? And this is true for any Civil Aviation minister not just PP!

And please, there is no point in comparing Qantas with Air India. There are thousands of other areas where the Indian government/politicians meddle when they shouldn't. The cricket selection is another such example. That's why the Aussie team is much superior to us, isn't it??

And last but not the least, where did you get information on IC running into losses?

If you look at the statistics, IC has had a net profit for two years in a row (2004-2005). Have a look at the link below, which is the World Airline Report from the ATW website. It shows a comparison between 2004 and 2005.

http://www.atwonline.com/channels/dataAirlineEconomics/World_Airline_Report_2005.pdf

You will be amazed to know that IC's net profit has actually increased from $9.8 million in 2004 to $14.434 million in 2005.

- Vivek

the_380 wrote:

Douse PP's fury???

Frankly wudnt mind calling him a bas****

He's responsible for the losses of AI and IC. Why the hell would the govt have an interference in the working and management of the airlines. Have a look at Qantas. Even they are a govt airline but the aussie govt doesnt poke its a** in their working.

-- Edited by vivekman at 04:03, 2006-10-26

VABBy · Member

Excuse me matie u need to check ur faq. QF (Qantas) is not a australian govt airline. Its very much privatised. Though its the flag carrier of australia. ..

himmat01 · Member

I was on IC J class on BLR-BOM sector on Oct. 20th. I was the only passenger in business class. Received a royal treatment. Two aunties just for me. Had two meals, Indian non veg and continental It was VT-EYH. The seats were more comfortable than the IC A320 J class seats but the pitch was not as good.

vivekman · Member

Now, that's life!!!

himmat01 wrote:

Received a royal treatment. Two aunties just for me

the_380 · Member

vivekman wrote:

the_380, that's a pretty strong worded and uncalled for statement!

Do you have statistics to prove that AI and IC have run into losses ever since Praful Patel took over? For all I know, these airlines have been in a mess for ages now. He's not the only one to blame!!

I agree with you on the point that there is government interference in these airlines but if Praful Patel has his way, he would merge and privatize both these airlines. However, due to insanse meddling by the useless Left parties that form a part of the coalition government, his hands are tied! Would one want to risk a Left party pullout and mid-term polls? Think about it!!

Understand one thing! Praful Patel is NOT the government. He is just the minister for civil aviation. How can he help if his fellow members of parliament or those in "High Command" dole out free tickets or upgrades? And this is true for any Civil Aviation minister not just PP!

And please, there is no point in comparing Qantas with Air India. There are thousands of other areas where the Indian government/politicians meddle when they shouldn't. The cricket selection is another such example. That's why the Aussie team is much superior to us, isn't it??

And last but not the least, where did you get information on IC running into losses?

If you look at the statistics, IC has had a net profit for two years in a row (2004-2005). Have a look at the link below, which is the World Airline Report from the ATW website. It shows a comparison between 2004 and 2005.

http://www.atwonline.com/channels/dataAirlineEconomics/World_Airline_Report_2005.pdf

You will be amazed to know that IC's net profit has actually increased from $9.8 million in 2004 to $14.434 million in 2005.

- Vivek

the_380 wrote:

Douse PP's fury???

Frankly wudnt mind calling him a bas****

He's responsible for the losses of AI and IC. Why the hell would the govt have an interference in the working and management of the airlines. Have a look at Qantas. Even they are a govt airline but the aussie govt doesnt poke its a** in their working.

-- Edited by vivekman at 04:03, 2006-10-26

Im not blaming Praful patel of course the whole generations of Aviation Ministers are responsible...im targetting the statement douse Praful’s fury

Payments still pending even after so many years-govt not giving clearances to IC to fly international...better facilities alloted to other airlines in the same situations...over all the ministry is totally responsible for what AI and IC stand today.

Just for a small example...Now the GVK operated BOM airport has made it compulsory for all airport staff to wearthose light reflected jackets to be given by the respective airlines or govt (incase of ATC). Have a look at the quality given to IC staff- BMC street sweepers equivalent quality.

On a broader example--- A 2-3 member team is appointed every 3-4 months by the DGCA and Civil Aviation Dept for "quality inspection". These people have absolutely zero technical knowledge and hence what they inspect is whether seat covers are good or torn whether carpets are cleaned or not! All these things are always checked in IC dont know in case of AI definately must be the same. These people see and if they find any "problem" then they file a report against the Ch. Manager and the DGM. But when the inspection comes for a private airline the airlines refuse such cheks and the DGCA accepts their reasons.

Is this something out of the ministry's knowledge?

VABBy · Member

Well its an open fact that PP is more of Jet Airways Minister than Civil Aviation Minister

AKLDELNonstop · Member

vabby wrote:

Well its an open fact that PP is more of Jet Airways Minister than Civil Aviation Minister

In that case would he please allow them to fly to the gulf

the_380 · Member

AKLDELNonstop wrote:

vabby wrote:

Well its an open fact that PP is more of Jet Airways Minister than Civil Aviation Minister

In that case would he please allow them to fly to the gulf

Yes once in some interview (i think last year after 26/7 floods) an ED of some management company had openly attacked PP by saying that people know you better as a 9W minister than a civil aviation minister ( thats why i put his designation in quotes)

Also said that PP has some shares in 9W

As far as gulf routes are concerned the middle east had told the GoI that they wudn't want any Indian private airlines into their soil. Dont know how old is this and if it has been changed as yet.

-- Edited by the_380 at 14:10, 2006-10-27

crew320 · Member

the_380 wrote:

Also said that PP has some shares in 9W

From what I know, its PP's wife who's holding these shares with 9W..

aM

the_380 · Member

crew320 wrote:

the_380 wrote:

Also said that PP has some shares in 9W

From what I know, its PP's wife who's holding these shares with 9W..

aM

Doesnt make any difference...must have brought them in his wife's name

VABBy · Member

Yups the bottom line is PP owns though under eyes of law his wifey and he are seperate legal entities

the_380 · Member

There is one big unsolavble problem in Indian Aviation.

Our aviation ministers have absolutely no knowledge about aviation! They can do no good to AI/IC.

If you appoint someone like Trivedi or Thulsidas who are knowledgable the govt doesn't give them a freehand-ie they are mere PUPPETS appointed by the govt.

Fresh news in IC that Trivedi is gettin frustrated with the aviation ministry and doesn't want to work anymore. I can expect a resignation or replacement by him.

Thats why even if you appoint people like Bruce Ashby or Rakesh Gangwal to head any of these airlines they would bang out within days.

We target Thulsidas and Trivedi and former AI/IC CMDs for the condition of these airlines but the truth is something else. The bloody nose poking ministry must be kept out of this.

Remember the guy from Tata Group appointed into AI or IC back in 1990s? What was the reason he left? Simple people with knowledge can't bear such shit happenening under their own eyes-it hurts.

So the next time any one blames Thulsidas or Trivedi please see who is actually responsible for it, mere puppets or the puthli walla.

AKLDELNonstop · Member

PP's wife I believe is on 9W board.

Also I doubt the info on Middle East not allowing pvt Indian carriers, coz im sure GOI would reciprocate and not allow their carriers into India.

COUGAR · Member

---Edited by Nimish due to unacceptable language

-- Edited by Nimish at 20:37, 2006-10-30

karatecatman · Member

PP's merger plans are not going too great.

Though the IA/AI chiefs have written to the employees, there is a 13-point charter of demands they want to be addressed first. Left is also being asked to support the employees.

But anyway, more will be known on Nov 13, when the panel of ministers meets to discuss step one of the merger.

PP is not known to be polite to the AI/IA management. Former IA chief Sunil Arora was the only one who literally told PP off twice.

Thulasi is too scared. Trived is polite, but the man is too talented/educated to put up with nonsense. Not surprised, if its true, that he wants out.

380, the programmme wher PP was referred to as being the minster for 9W and Kingfisher was Vir Sangvi's talk show. Vir asked him that and PP only went deep red. No answer.

-- Edited by karatecatman at 14:23, 2006-10-28

karatecatman · Member

In support of what was said earlier about the Left making noises about the merger and against PP, here is the article that appeared in People's Democracy, the mouthpiece of the Left.

Has contributions by all the top Left leaders, esp those supporting the UPA.

So expect things to get messy?

********

People's Democracy
(Weekly Organ of the Communist Party of India (Marxist)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vol. XXX

No. 44

October 29, 2006

Airlines Employees Adopt Campaign Declaration

P. R Krishnan

IT is now the tenth year since the last settlement governing the service conditions of the Indian Airlines employees came to an end. But the management goes on keeping mum in so far as revision of the pay scales, carrier progression and other service conditions of the employees are concerned. And at the same time the workload goes on increasing and the Airlines staff are compelled to bear it. However, there is no restriction whatsoever for the top brass of the Airline management and bureaucratic. They go on enjoying unrestricted facilities and higher remunerations.

The question is: How long are the employees to tolerate this? That question has now been resolved in a seminar held by the employees in Mumbai on October 14. In the declaration issued from the seminar, the employees have adopted a 9 points charter for nationwide campaign so as to make the management concede to their long pending demands.

It was an all-India seminar held in the Ideal School Complex Hall, situated in the midst of the employees’ quarters at Kalina in northeast Mumbai, in which the said declaration was adopted. The seminar was organised under the banner of Air Corporation Employees Union (ACEU), Mumbai Region. “Future of Indian Airlines” was the title for discussion, and the seminar was attended by 225 delegates from different airports and regions. CITU president Dr M K Pandhe and general secretary Chittabrata Majumdar were special invitees to the seminar. They were the main speakers as well, on the occasion.
Apart from the main issue of settlement of the long pending charter of demands, the worrisome topic for discussion among the delegates was the impending amalgamation or merger of the Air India and Indian Airlines. Though both these establishments are instruments of the state in the public sector, the service conditions therein are different. The question agitating the employees in the seminar was: What will happen to their existing service conditions after the merger? Will there be different service condition or common ones?

The seminar proceedings were conducted by a presidium comprising Naresh Lal and Ram Palav (Mumbai) and Basudeo Chaudhary (Kolkata). Ram Palav, chairman of the Air Corporation Employees Union, welcomed the dignitaries and delegates. A T Raj, regional general secretary of the ACEU presented, a background paper which detailed the history of the airline industry and the issues, problems and demands of the Air Corporation Employees. M K Pandhe inaugurated the seminar.

In his speech, Pandhe said there was no justification for the Airlines management sitting idle and not starting negotiations with representatives of the unions on their charter of demands. He said this attitude of the aviation ministry and the Airport Authority of India has to change. For that, he wanted the entire workforce in this industry, in all airports and regions, to unite. Only through united campaigns and agitations would the government and its bureaucracy come around.

Pandhe said he has already written letters to all the unions in Indian Airlines and Air India emphasising the need for united campaign to force the managements for a settlement. He said the Indian Airlines once had the monopoly in civil aviation. But the picture has changed due to liberalisation and its value in the share market has gone down. The civil aviation minister is an industrialist and all his policies have been in favour of industrialists and employers. That is why he has started the process of privatisation. The minister claims it is to make competition effective. But we are not against competition, Pandhe said, adding that certainly we are against handing over the aviation industry to private capital.

Pandhe asked whether the government has made any investigation about the funding of private airlines in the country. He said several private airlines are operating in the country on black money. He cited the former civil aviation minister Sarad Yadav’s statement that the Jet Airways are running their business with underworld don Dawood Ibrahim’s money. Pandhe called for a thorough inquiry not only of Jet Airways operations abut also of the other 6 private airlines in the aviation industry.
Pandhe next said the government is bent upon completing the schedule of amalgamation. Representatives of the employees unions should therefore meet the government in a delegation, seeking clarification regarding the service conditions of employees after the merger. The civil aviation ministry is aware of the fact that despite a so-called loss, the Steel Authority of India settled the demands of the employees. The civil aviation ministry should also know the fact that the government of India has long back accepted the principle of workers’ participation in management. More, this promise is included in the constitution’s directive principles for the governance of the country. This was brought into the constitution by an amendment far back, when Indira Gandhi was the prime minister. This is article 43A of the constitution, which the minister should know. For the minister’s knowledge, Pandhe quoted this article as under:

“Participation of workers in management of industries – The state shall take steps, by suitable legislation or in any other way, to secure the participation of workers in the management of undertakings, establishments or other organisations engaged in any industry.”

The government should therefore not waste any further time in settling the demands, said Pandhe.

In his speech, CITU general secretary Chittabrata Majumdar roundly criticised the UPA government policy towards the labour. He particularly took the civil aviation ministry and the Airport Authority of India to task and asked why the ministry was showing no interest in settling the staff demands while it was so enthusiastic about bringing private agencies into this premier industry at the cost of the public sector.

Majumdar was also firm in his observation that the so-called loss the aviation minister is trying to project as the reason for privatisation, could convince none. This key sector is very much interlinked to the country’s security. The loss, if any, cannot in any way be attributed to the airlines staff and workers. The loss is mainly due to the additional consumption of petrol on account of reckless modernisation by private agencies and their middlemen. Majumdar said it was the management of Air India, Indian Airlines and the civil aviation ministry that are responsible for such a sorry state of affairs, and not the employees. The minister is not interested in preventing this national wastage. But workers were certainly concerned about the loss and therefore they were and are opposing privatisation.

The Left parties’ MPs should, said Chittabrata Majumdar, prevent the disinvestment of this key public sector industry through their effective intervention in parliament. He then drew the attention of the delegates to NALCO and Neyveli Lignite Corporation. He said there are a number of unions in both NALCO and Neyvely Corporation. Yet they came together in national interest and waged united struggle to stop privatisation. The Left MPs also took up this issue and vehemently opposed its privatisation in parliament. By such united actions we could successfully stop the attempt of the UPA government of privatising these public sector industries and could save them in the national interest. Majumdar said he was citing these examples to bring to the attention of airport employees the point that there is necessity for them to have united campaign and actions. He hoped this national seminar would go a long way in cementing the unity of airport employees and enable them to launch united actions to force the authorities to settle their demands. We are here to give the airport employees our full support, said Majumdar.

R Ramanathan, a former general secretary of Air Corporation Employees Union, was a special invitee at the seminar. While greeting the seminar’s participants, Ramanathan stressed the need that the employees’ unions should undertake a vigorous campaign to force the management to settle their long pending demands.

Others who spoke in the seminar were Y K Singh (a representative of Indian Commercial Pilots Association), Kalpana Deshpande (senior air hostess), Tappan Kumar Pathak (Kolkata), Parthasaraty (chairman, ACUE, southern region), Y K Sharma (ex-general secretary, ACEU), J B Kadian (Delhi), D K Shetty (treasurer, ACEU, Mumbai), B N Nagre (secretary, SC/ST Association), and Surjeet Das and Rana Deep (Kolkata). Balaji Moorthy read out a paper on behalf of the ACEU’s general secretary Arun Kumar. Gajanand Kirtikar, a Shiva Sena MLA, also greeted the seminar.

After the daylong interactions and discussions, the conference adopted a declaration containing a 9-points charter on which the unions in the airlines will now start united campaigns. On behalf of the presidium, ACEU vice president Naresh Lal appealed to the delegates to propagate the declaration adopted in the seminar at all airline stations and campaign for unity and struggle. Vivek Rao proposed a vote of thanks.

the_380 · Member

By the way Charlie Foxtrot has no IFEs installed.

Charlie Golf onwards might have.

Whats the bloody minister doing now? Sleeping? All nonesense bull shit lies. They had promised IFEs on all IC's brand new 43 Airbuses